HP/Compaq laptop battery and/or charger problem

[Roger Mills]

My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power
is removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.

[John Williamson]

Post by Roger Mills
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.

I'm 99% certain that the batteries have died due to old age. The
behaviour of the charging LED suggests that the charging circuitry is
okay. Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

Two simple ways to make certain, test the battery in another machine,and
try a working battery in yours. Of course, this does have the
disadvantage of needing access to a machine that is known to be good.

[Andy Burns]

Post by John Williamson
Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

A recently purchased IdeaPad has an option to keep the battery charged
to 50% rather than 100%. This is intended in cases where the laptop is
usually left connected to the charger, which hurts the battery
longevity, you can untick the setting when you know you will want the
full 5+ hours battery capacity ...

[Roger Mills]

Post by John Williamson

Post by Roger Mills
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.

I'm 99% certain that the batteries have died due to old age. The
behaviour of the charging LED suggests that the charging circuitry is
okay. Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?

Post by John Williamson
Two simple ways to make certain, test the battery in another machine,and
try a working battery in yours. Of course, this does have the
disadvantage of needing access to a machine that is known to be good.

Not an option, unfortunately. I don't have access to another machine
which uses the same type of battery - and the only way of getting a
working battery is to *buy* one - which is what I'm seeking to avoid
until I'm sure that the charger is ok!

[John Williamson]

Post by Roger Mills

Post by John Williamson

Post by Roger Mills
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.

I'm 99% certain that the batteries have died due to old age. The
behaviour of the charging LED suggests that the charging circuitry is
okay. Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?

Stay off, IME. Which model of laptop is it?

[Roger Mills]

Post by John Williamson

Post by Roger Mills
Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?

Stay off, IME. Which model of laptop is it?

As per my original post, it's an HP/Compaq nx9005 with an F4809 battery.

[John Williamson]

Post by Roger Mills

Post by John Williamson

Post by Roger Mills
Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?

Stay off, IME. Which model of laptop is it?

As per my original post, it's an HP/Compaq nx9005 with an F4809 battery.

I should have re-read the original post, but I'm stuck on a netbook with
a tiny screen and it's *way* up there^.

Unfortunately, I don't have one, or one which uses the same battery,so I
can't offer a spare unit type check.

[Peter Crosland]

My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery -
or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new one a
few years ago and they are now both the same.
The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.
The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.
If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.
Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power is
removed, it stops dead.
If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).
I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I will
have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I can't
make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to have its
own built-in UPS!

After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life. Indeed
the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses and buy a new
machine.

Regards from Peter Crosland

[Roger Mills]

Post by Peter Crosland
After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life. Indeed
the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses and buy a new
machine.

The two batteries have been used serially - so that's only 4 years each,
but even that may be beyond their expected life!

The laptop has already been pretty much retired, and is mainly only used
as a standby machine. It had to be pressed into service recently when my
wife's computer picked up a virus - and she was able to use the laptop
whilst I sorted her main computer.

[BillW50]

Post by Peter Crosland
After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life.
Indeed the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses
and buy a new machine.
Regards from Peter Crosland

I don't know... I don't think the same way about older laptops as you do
about them. For example I have 10 laptops from 2006 alone.

3 Gateway MX6124
6 Gateway M465
1 Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900 GPU connected in SLI mode

And I have no interest whatsoever in any newer machines, except my four
netbooks from 2008. And my fascination with 2006 models is that they are
at the crossroads between XP, Vista, and Windows 7. And anything newer
it is hard to find XP drivers if they exist at all. And newer machines
don't have Cardbus slots anymore.

The Gateway M465 laptops are very versatile as well. They support
docking stations, 2 hard drives, 2 batteries, floppy drive and a wide
range of CPUs work in these things. Thus they can run either 32 bit or
64 bit OS. And because of the docking station, you don't have to worry
whether the DC jack works or not. And they came out with either matte or
glossy, wide or non-wide screens.

I see 2006 as a great year for computers including laptops. And IMHO
newer machines just are not as versatile. Heck does any newer laptops
even support docking stations anymore? Or are they gone too?

So how long can I use these 2006 laptops? I am not sure. Frankly I am
surprised they can still keep up with the latest software. Back in 2006,
I thought 2011 was when I had to give them up and to move on. But 2011
is here and I might still be using them in 2016. ;-)

[NT]

Post by BillW50

Post by Peter Crosland
After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life.
Indeed the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses
and buy a new machine.
Regards from Peter Crosland

I don't know... I don't think the same way about older laptops as you do
about them. For example I have 10 laptops from 2006 alone.
3 Gateway MX6124
6 Gateway M465
1 Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900 GPU connected in SLI mode
And I have no interest whatsoever in any newer machines, except my four
netbooks from 2008. And my fascination with 2006 models is that they are
at the crossroads between XP, Vista, and Windows 7. And anything newer
it is hard to find XP drivers if they exist at all. And newer machines
don't have Cardbus slots anymore.
The Gateway M465 laptops are very versatile as well. They support
docking stations, 2 hard drives, 2 batteries, floppy drive and a wide
range of CPUs work in these things. Thus they can run either 32 bit or
64 bit OS. And because of the docking station, you don't have to worry
whether the DC jack works or not. And they came out with either matte or
glossy, wide or non-wide screens.
I see 2006 as a great year for computers including laptops. And IMHO
newer machines just are not as versatile. Heck does any newer laptops
even support docking stations anymore? Or are they gone too?
So how long can I use these 2006 laptops? I am not sure. Frankly I am
surprised they can still keep up with the latest software. Back in 2006,
I thought 2011 was when I had to give them up and to move on. But 2011
is here and I might still be using them in 2016. ;-)

It should be perfectly able to manage 10 years and more, what usually
makes old machines unusable is people putting ill suited OSes and apps
on them. Linux Antix or Puppy should run very well on such machines.


NT

[BillW50]

Post by NT

Post by BillW50

Post by Peter Crosland
After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life.
Indeed the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses
and buy a new machine.
Regards from Peter Crosland

I don't know... I don't think the same way about older laptops as you do
about them. For example I have 10 laptops from 2006 alone.
3 Gateway MX6124
6 Gateway M465
1 Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900 GPU connected in SLI mode
And I have no interest whatsoever in any newer machines, except my four
netbooks from 2008. And my fascination with 2006 models is that they are
at the crossroads between XP, Vista, and Windows 7. And anything newer
it is hard to find XP drivers if they exist at all. And newer machines
don't have Cardbus slots anymore.
The Gateway M465 laptops are very versatile as well. They support
docking stations, 2 hard drives, 2 batteries, floppy drive and a wide
range of CPUs work in these things. Thus they can run either 32 bit or
64 bit OS. And because of the docking station, you don't have to worry
whether the DC jack works or not. And they came out with either matte or
glossy, wide or non-wide screens.
I see 2006 as a great year for computers including laptops. And IMHO
newer machines just are not as versatile. Heck does any newer laptops
even support docking stations anymore? Or are they gone too?
So how long can I use these 2006 laptops? I am not sure. Frankly I am
surprised they can still keep up with the latest software. Back in 2006,
I thought 2011 was when I had to give them up and to move on. But 2011
is here and I might still be using them in 2016. ;-)

It should be perfectly able to manage 10 years and more, what usually
makes old machines unusable is people putting ill suited OSes and apps
on them. Linux Antix or Puppy should run very well on such machines.
NT

Much thanks NT. ;-)

[Brian Gaff]

Well, if this situation has been going on for a while, the batteries will
almost certainly be dead now in any case. They prefer to be left in a semi
charged state, or they then fail to charge at all when you try to charge
them after a long period.
So, it really depends on whether the machine is worth getting fixed if the
charger is dodgy.
You would need a new battery in any case I'd think.

Brian
--
Brian Gaff - ***@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!

My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery -
or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new one a
few years ago and they are now both the same.
The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.
The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.
If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.
Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power is
removed, it stops dead.
If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).
I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I will
have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I can't
make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to have its
own built-in UPS!
TIA.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Davey]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:49:59 +0100

Post by Roger Mills
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.
The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row
of LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.
The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical
connector, which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the
battery via circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the
front of the laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and
turns green when it is fully charged.
If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for
the whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery
immediately after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge
indicator LEDs light when the test button is pressed.
Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop
if mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains
power is removed, it stops dead.
If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp
flashes amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).
I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days,
and then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.

I have a similar situation to you. My laptop is an nx9010, and I bought
a new replacement battery just over a year and a half ago. Now it
behaves exactly as you describe, in every detail, and I also have
wondered whether it's the battery or the charging system. I shall be
interested in the conclusion, if any, although I have bought a new
laptop, which far outstrips the abilities of the Compaq.

[John Williamson]

Post by Davey
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:49:59 +0100

Post by Roger Mills
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.
The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row
of LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.
The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical
connector, which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the
battery via circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the
front of the laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and
turns green when it is fully charged.
If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for
the whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery
immediately after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge
indicator LEDs light when the test button is pressed.
Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop
if mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains
power is removed, it stops dead.
If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp
flashes amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).
I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days,
and then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.

I have a similar situation to you. My laptop is an nx9010, and I bought
a new replacement battery just over a year and a half ago. Now it
behaves exactly as you describe, in every detail, and I also have
wondered whether it's the battery or the charging system. I shall be
interested in the conclusion, if any, although I have bought a new
laptop, which far outstrips the abilities of the Compaq.

Something I have noticed on my Armada is that aftermarket batteries are
very variable in quality. I bought a pair, so I could put one in the CD
drive slot, and one in the normal slot, one lasted a year or two, the
other failed totally within weeks.

The both gave symptoms as described when they failed, with the bonus
that one generated a BIOS error message saying the battery was faulty.

[Davey]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:21:45 +0100

Post by John Williamson

Post by Davey
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:49:59 +0100

Post by Roger Mills
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a
new one a few years ago and they are now both the same.
The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a
row of LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.
The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical
connector, which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the
battery via circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on
the front of the laptop which is amber when the battery is
charging, and turns green when it is fully charged.
If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for
the whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery
immediately after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the
charge indicator LEDs light when the test button is pressed.
Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the
laptop if mains power is not present. If when the laptop is
running, mains power is removed, it stops dead.
If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp
flashes amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).
I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2
days, and then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no
avail.
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with
the internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written
above? I don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger
is duff, I will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if
I can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a
laptop to have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.

I have a similar situation to you. My laptop is an nx9010, and I
bought a new replacement battery just over a year and a half ago.
Now it behaves exactly as you describe, in every detail, and I also
have wondered whether it's the battery or the charging system. I
shall be interested in the conclusion, if any, although I have
bought a new laptop, which far outstrips the abilities of the
Compaq.

Something I have noticed on my Armada is that aftermarket batteries
are very variable in quality. I bought a pair, so I could put one in
the CD drive slot, and one in the normal slot, one lasted a year or
two, the other failed totally within weeks.
The both gave symptoms as described when they failed, with the bonus
that one generated a BIOS error message saying the battery was faulty.

All I got was the information that it was almost fully charged, but it
wasn't.
The fact that the LED is alight does tend to indicate that the charging
system is functioning, rather than the battery. But is could also be
that the system is overcharging the battery, leading to its early
demise.

[Man at B&Q]

Post by Roger Mills
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.
The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.
The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.
If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.
Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power
is removed, it stops dead.
If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).
I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

If regularly used on mains, take the battery out, as they don't like
the heat.

MBQ

[AJL]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"

Post by Man at B&Q
Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

One of the problems with the modern Lithium based batteries is that
they start deteriorating the minute they're manufactured and continue
to do so throughout their lifetime whether they are used or not.

So when replacing the battery on an old laptop the problem is to find
a new battery that was not manufactured 2 years ago (or longer) and
has been sitting on the shelf ever since waiting to be sold. This
battery can be sold as new, and comes in a new unopened package, but
electrically it won't be new.

For that reason IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

[BillW50]

Post by AJL
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"

Post by Man at B&Q
Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

One of the problems with the modern Lithium based batteries is that
they start deteriorating the minute they're manufactured and continue
to do so throughout their lifetime whether they are used or not.
So when replacing the battery on an old laptop the problem is to find
a new battery that was not manufactured 2 years ago (or longer) and
has been sitting on the shelf ever since waiting to be sold. This
battery can be sold as new, and comes in a new unopened package, but
electrically it won't be new.
For that reason IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

That is all true of course. But I get 10 years out of mine by sitting on
the shelf. While Barry Watzman got 12 years out of his. You should check
them every year or two and charge them if the voltage has dropped too
low. As once they hit something like 3.4 volts per cell, the safety
circuit might refuse to charge them anymore. As once the cells hit 2.8
volts per cell, they like to burst into flames if you try to charge
them.

So the way I look at it... say a battery was manufactured four to five
years ago. Anything older probably lost too much of its charge and the
safety circuits will refuse to charge it. And even being this old and
treated right, it should last about another 5 to 7 years.

So I don't know about you, But freshly manufactured laptop Li-Ion
batteries usually cost like 200 bucks. While Li-Ion batteries which are
older can be had for about 40 bucks. Remember the sellers are trying to
get rid of them before they will refuse to charge. As once they get to
this state, they can't even give them away. So spend 200 bucks and get
about 10 to 12 years out of it. Or spend about 40 bucks and get 5 to 7
years out of those. I dunno, I rather go for the older Li-Ion batteries
if you ask me. ;-)

[AJL]

Post by BillW50

Post by AJL
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"

Post by Man at B&Q
Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

That is all true of course. But I get 10 years out of mine by sitting on
the shelf. While Barry Watzman got 12 years out of his.

Yes I do remember those 'who has the oldest battery' campfire stories
from times past here. Kinda like the mine is bigger than yours? 8-O

Post by BillW50
But freshly manufactured laptop Li-Ion
batteries usually cost like 200 bucks.

Just checked several sites and found batteries for my 4 year old Acer
laptop (4315) ranging from about US$50 to $100.

Post by BillW50
While Li-Ion batteries which are older can be had for about 40 bucks.

Cheap is not always better in batteries (though it could be). Problem
is how do you tell? I would likely go with a branded dealer like
Duracell.com and pay the price.

Post by BillW50
So spend 200 bucks and get about 10 to 12 years out of it.
Or spend about 40 bucks and get 5 to 7 years out of those.

Other than bragging rights why would you need a 12 year old battery?

[BillW50]

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50

Post by AJL
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"

Post by Man at B&Q
Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

That is all true of course. But I get 10 years out of mine by
sitting on the shelf. While Barry Watzman got 12 years out of his.

Yes I do remember those 'who has the oldest battery' campfire stories
from times past here. Kinda like the mine is bigger than yours? 8-O

Yes, Barry had better luck with his lithium batteries than I. So what
can I say? lol

Btw, those 10 year old batteries are now 12 years old and I haven't
taken out of the drawer in two years. They could be history or they
might still be good. They fit my 12 year old Toshiba 2595XDVD laptops.
And they just sit up on the shelf doing nothing, so I really don't care
if the batteries are still good or not. ;-)

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
But freshly manufactured laptop Li-Ion
batteries usually cost like 200 bucks.

Just checked several sites and found batteries for my 4 year old Acer
laptop (4315) ranging from about US$50 to $100.

Yes, but are those one month old batteries? Or were they manufactured 4
years ago?

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
While Li-Ion batteries which are older can be had for about 40 bucks.

Cheap is not always better in batteries (though it could be). Problem
is how do you tell? I would likely go with a branded dealer like
Duracell.com and pay the price.

Well there are those stories about cheap knockoffs which got into the
dealers supply chain. Remember those stories a few years back? Things
like cell phones bursting into flames while they were using them or in
their pockets.

Then there was I believe who was Sony, who thought they were clever. As
they made the battery layers thinner and gave them larger capacity for a
smaller package. Sounded good on the surface. But the layers were too
thin and they begun to short internally and burst into flames. I think
they said that was the largest battery recall in history.

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
So spend 200 bucks and get about 10 to 12 years out of it.
Or spend about 40 bucks and get 5 to 7 years out of those.

Other than bragging rights why would you need a 12 year old battery?

That is what I am saying. Who cares if the battery was freshly
manufactured or not? As if an unused five year old battery for 40 bucks
gives me 6 years of service after I get it. I find that totally
acceptable. Don't you?

[AJL]

Post by BillW50
Who cares if the battery was freshly
manufactured or not?

Pure L-ion battery physics says that a 5 year old 'new' battery will
have a lower capacity than the same battery freshly manufactured.

Post by BillW50
As if an unused five year old battery for 40 bucks
gives me 6 years of service after I get it.

The most expensive remanufactured (fresh cells) battery for this Acer
4315 was $100. You saved $60 over your 6 years. So for pennies a month
you will put up with a lower capacity battery?

[BillW50]

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
Who cares if the battery was freshly
manufactured or not?

Pure L-ion battery physics says that a 5 year old 'new' battery will
have a lower capacity than the same battery freshly manufactured.

True, but my 5 year old batteries have 80% or better capacity. Age
doesn't seem to effect capacity very much. Although heat and the number
of recharges does.

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
As if an unused five year old battery for 40 bucks
gives me 6 years of service after I get it.

The most expensive remanufactured (fresh cells) battery for this Acer
4315 was $100. You saved $60 over your 6 years. So for pennies a month
you will put up with a lower capacity battery?

Like you said, who wants a battery to last 12 years? By then, I have
lost interest in a laptop that old. The only exception is my Palm IIIc
which happens to be 12 years old now. The first lithium battery lasted
about 6 years and this second one is now 6 years old and it is still
going strong (it is also one of those cheap aftermarket ones too).

[AJL]

Post by BillW50
who wants a battery to last 12 years? By then, I have
lost interest in a laptop that old.

I have never bought a replacement for a failed laptop battery. There
was always something newer and better that I wanted before the battery
wore out. Wasteful I know, but fun nevertheless... ;)

Post by BillW50
The only exception is my Palm IIIc
which happens to be 12 years old now. The first lithium battery lasted
about 6 years and this second one is now 6 years old and it is still
going strong (it is also one of those cheap aftermarket ones too).

How can you stand to use that thing? Compared to a modern smartphone
(my Palm replacement) it must be very painful... 8-O

[BillW50]

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
who wants a battery to last 12 years? By then, I have
lost interest in a laptop that old.

I have never bought a replacement for a failed laptop battery. There
was always something newer and better that I wanted before the battery
wore out. Wasteful I know, but fun nevertheless... ;)

Besides the Palm IIIc I haven't either. But I do buy spare batteries for
my laptops and netbooks right away. ;-)

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
The only exception is my Palm IIIc
which happens to be 12 years old now. The first lithium battery lasted
about 6 years and this second one is now 6 years old and it is still
going strong (it is also one of those cheap aftermarket ones too).

How can you stand to use that thing? Compared to a modern smartphone
(my Palm replacement) it must be very painful... 8-O

Well I still use the address book and the date book. I also use it for
grocery shopping list and to store game cheats. It is kind of like
having a flash drive with a touch screen. ;-)

[AJL]

I still use the [Palm IIIc] address book and the date book. I also use it for
grocery shopping list and to store game cheats. It is kind of like
having a flash drive with a touch screen. ;-)

That Palm IIIc has 8 *Meg* of memory, right? Ah Bill you have to
update a little. With a smartphone, instead of an 8 Meg flashdrive
with a screen you could have a 24 Gig (or more) flashdrive with a
touch screen and a laptop built in... ;)

[dennis@home]

Post by AJL

I still use the [Palm IIIc] address book and the date book. I also use it for
grocery shopping list and to store game cheats. It is kind of like
having a flash drive with a touch screen. ;-)

That Palm IIIc has 8 *Meg* of memory, right? Ah Bill you have to
update a little. With a smartphone, instead of an 8 Meg flashdrive
with a screen you could have a 24 Gig (or more) flashdrive with a
touch screen and a laptop built in... ;)

Mines only got 16G of flash built in, but it does have a microSD slot so I
can add another 32G.
There isn't much you can use it for other than videos/photos or so much
music you will never be able to play it all.

The 1G of RAM is more useful as navigation software and voice recognition
works so much better when it has enough RAM.

[AJL]

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
That Palm IIIc has 8 *Meg* of memory, right? Ah Bill you have to
update a little. With a smartphone, instead of an 8 Meg flashdrive
with a screen you could have a 24 Gig (or more) flashdrive with a
touch screen and a laptop built in... ;)

Mines only got 16G of flash built in, but it does have a
microSD slot so I can add another 32G.

My phone has 8G internal flash + a 16G micro SD = 24G.

Post by ***@home
There isn't much you can use it for other than videos/photos or so much
music you will never be able to play it all.

I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

[dennis@home]

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as off
site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while they
are together if the data is valuable.

[BillW50]

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as
off site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while
they are together if the data is valuable.

That is so true Dennis. And while I keep some stuff off site (not as
much as I should). My data really doesn't have a lot of monetary value.
As heaven forbid that my house burns right into the ground someday. And
all of my devices and data are no more. Yes that would be heartbreaking
and all, but that is nothing compared that I don't have a house anymore.
I dunno, but I think most would feel the same.

[Sjouke Burry]

Post by BillW50

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as
off site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while
they are together if the data is valuable.

That is so true Dennis. And while I keep some stuff off site (not as
much as I should). My data really doesn't have a lot of monetary value.
As heaven forbid that my house burns right into the ground someday. And
all of my devices and data are no more. Yes that would be heartbreaking
and all, but that is nothing compared that I don't have a house anymore.
I dunno, but I think most would feel the same.

Hm... I am contemplating to dump my second backup usb seagate disk
elsewhere. Privacy concerns stopping me at the moment :)

[BillW50]

Post by Sjouke Burry

Post by BillW50

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as
off site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while
they are together if the data is valuable.

That is so true Dennis. And while I keep some stuff off site (not as
much as I should). My data really doesn't have a lot of monetary
value. As heaven forbid that my house burns right into the ground
someday. And all of my devices and data are no more. Yes that would be
heartbreaking and all, but that is nothing compared that I don't have
a house anymore. I dunno, but I think most would feel the same.

Hm... I am contemplating to dump my second backup usb seagate disk
elsewhere. Privacy concerns stopping me at the moment :)

Oh that is something else entirely. Some people like something that
wipes the disk and that is good enough. And I feel overwriting it with
DVDs or whatever is good enough. But it is still possible for the
determined to still pull the old information off.

Okay it is. And I hear people like the FBI or the CIA can and probably
the most seasoned hackers can too. Well in my case, I don't think any of
them are that interested in my stuff to go through all of the trouble.
As they are not going to get anything that is that exciting anyway.

But if you think you have something that interesting to those people.
Then take a 20 pound mallet and smash it to pieces. Yeah given enough
money and resources, nothing is impossible. But is it worth it? ;-)

[Sjouke Burry]

Post by BillW50

Post by Sjouke Burry

Post by BillW50

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as
off site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while
they are together if the data is valuable.

That is so true Dennis. And while I keep some stuff off site (not as
much as I should). My data really doesn't have a lot of monetary
value. As heaven forbid that my house burns right into the ground
someday. And all of my devices and data are no more. Yes that would be
heartbreaking and all, but that is nothing compared that I don't have
a house anymore. I dunno, but I think most would feel the same.

Hm... I am contemplating to dump my second backup usb seagate disk
elsewhere. Privacy concerns stopping me at the moment :)

Oh that is something else entirely. Some people like something that
wipes the disk and that is good enough. And I feel overwriting it with
DVDs or whatever is good enough. But it is still possible for the
determined to still pull the old information off.
Okay it is. And I hear people like the FBI or the CIA can and probably
the most seasoned hackers can too. Well in my case, I don't think any of
them are that interested in my stuff to go through all of the trouble.
As they are not going to get anything that is that exciting anyway.
But if you think you have something that interesting to those people.
Then take a 20 pound mallet and smash it to pieces. Yeah given enough
money and resources, nothing is impossible. But is it worth it? ;-)

Tssk... The dumping elswhere was for backup, I want it back in case of
emergency or update!! :)
But some of my friends might like to browse my backup, and I am not
sure I would like that......

[geoff]

In message <j2pitf$mua$***@dont-email.me>, BillW50 <***@aol.kom>
writes

Post by BillW50

Post by Sjouke Burry

Post by BillW50

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as
off site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while
they are together if the data is valuable.

That is so true Dennis. And while I keep some stuff off site (not as
much as I should). My data really doesn't have a lot of monetary
value. As heaven forbid that my house burns right into the ground
someday. And all of my devices and data are no more. Yes that would be
heartbreaking and all, but that is nothing compared that I don't have
a house anymore. I dunno, but I think most would feel the same.

Hm... I am contemplating to dump my second backup usb seagate disk
elsewhere. Privacy concerns stopping me at the moment :)

Oh that is something else entirely. Some people like something that
wipes the disk and that is good enough. And I feel overwriting it with
DVDs or whatever is good enough. But it is still possible for the
determined to still pull the old information off.
Okay it is. And I hear people like the FBI or the CIA can and probably
the most seasoned hackers can too. Well in my case, I don't think any
of them are that interested in my stuff to go through all of the
trouble. As they are not going to get anything that is that exciting
anyway.
But if you think you have something that interesting to those people.
Then take a 20 pound mallet and smash it to pieces. Yeah given enough
money and resources, nothing is impossible. But is it worth it? ;-)

... How paranoid are you ?

[geoff]

In message <j2pfv2$7r7$***@dont-email.me>, BillW50 <***@aol.kom>
writes

Post by BillW50

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as
off site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while
they are together if the data is valuable.

That is so true Dennis. And while I keep some stuff off site (not as
much as I should). My data really doesn't have a lot of monetary value.
As heaven forbid that my house burns right into the ground someday. And
all of my devices and data are no more. Yes that would be heartbreaking
and all, but that is nothing compared that I don't have a house
anymore. I dunno, but I think most would feel the same.

You can always rebuild a house

and I have an 8TB server at home and at work that mutually back each
other up (problem there for dennis , who is ... no longer employed)

The loss here would be photographs, slides, cassettes and vinyl

far too lazy to back up / scan all that lot in

[dennis@home]

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as
off site.
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while
they are together if the data is valuable.

That is so true Dennis. And while I keep some stuff off site (not as much
as I should). My data really doesn't have a lot of monetary value. As
heaven forbid that my house burns right into the ground someday. And all
of my devices and data are no more. Yes that would be heartbreaking and
all, but that is nothing compared that I don't have a house anymore. I
dunno, but I think most would feel the same.

They probably would at first, then the insurance would replace the house and
they would regret the loss of all their memories.

[AJL]

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as off
site.

When I'm off site my data is off site (unless I forget my phone).

Post by ***@home
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while they
are together if the data is valuable.

My music, ebooks, and photos are important to me but not valuable.

[dennis@home]

Post by AJL

Post by ***@home

Post by AJL
I do keep all my music (6G), all my ebooks (2G), and all my photos
(11G) on my phone and it's always with me. It's nice to have access to
the *whole* library and it also serves as my off site backup.

Unless it remains off site all the time its not really going to serve as off
site.

When I'm off site my data is off site (unless I forget my phone).

Post by ***@home
You can be sure that the fire/flood/lightning strike will happen while they
are together if the data is valuable.

My music, ebooks, and photos are important to me but not valuable.

Their value is not always monetary.
I would rather lose the house and have the insurance rebuild it than to lose
the pictures of my family/friends.
Likewise music collections (other than what my daughter plays) are of no
value as they can be replaced by the insurance the same as the house.

[AJL]

Post by ***@home
I would rather lose the house and have the insurance rebuild it than to
lose the pictures of my family/friends.

If I had a choice between losing the house and losing my pictures I think
I'd choose the pictures. Losing a house would be an unimaginable hassle.
But that is silly since I won't have that choice. If my pictures do burn up
when they're in my pocket (in my phone) then the backup will have failed
but in that situation I likely won't need them anymore anyway... ;)

Post by ***@home
Likewise music collections (other than what my daughter plays) are of no
value as they can be replaced by the insurance the same as the house.

I doubt that insurance will (or can) replace my Usenet derived music
collection so I'll just keep hoping my pants don't catch on fire...

[BillW50]

Post by AJL

I still use the [Palm IIIc] address book and the date book. I also use it for
grocery shopping list and to store game cheats. It is kind of like
having a flash drive with a touch screen. ;-)

That Palm IIIc has 8 *Meg* of memory, right? Ah Bill you have to
update a little. With a smartphone, instead of an 8 Meg flashdrive
with a screen you could have a 24 Gig (or more) flashdrive with a
touch screen and a laptop built in... ;)

Yup, 8MB soldered on the motherboard without any expansion slot. And 8MB
is huge for shopping lists and game cheats. ;-)

Smartphone? Naw... cellular signals don't work well where I live. They
only work well when I run into town.

Anyway I rather use a netbook rather than a smartphone for apps and data
stuff. Bigger keyboard and larger screen too. ;-)

[AJL]

Post by BillW50

Post by AJL
That Palm IIIc has 8 *Meg* of memory, right? Ah Bill you have to
update a little. With a smartphone, instead of an 8 Meg flashdrive
with a screen you could have a 24 Gig (or more) flashdrive with a
touch screen and a laptop built in... ;)

Yup, 8MB soldered on the motherboard without any expansion slot. And 8MB
is huge for shopping lists and game cheats. ;-)

My first Palm was 2 Meg and I got along just fine with it. Now I can't
imagine how I ever got along on such a pittance... ;)

Post by BillW50
Smartphone? Naw... cellular signals don't work well where I live. They
only work well when I run into town.

No need for cell signals if you don't want a phone. When you put a
smartphone in Airplane Mode they are really just a PDA with laptop
(and WiFi) capabilities. Check EBay for some good used prices. A new
toy for you to check out...

Post by BillW50
Anyway I rather use a netbook rather than a smartphone for apps and data
stuff. Bigger keyboard and larger screen too. ;-)

Use both. You do now (your netbook and your Palm).

[BillW50]

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50

Post by AJL
That Palm IIIc has 8 *Meg* of memory, right? Ah Bill you have to
update a little. With a smartphone, instead of an 8 Meg flashdrive
with a screen you could have a 24 Gig (or more) flashdrive with a
touch screen and a laptop built in... ;)

Yup, 8MB soldered on the motherboard without any expansion slot. And 8MB
is huge for shopping lists and game cheats. ;-)

My first Palm was 2 Meg and I got along just fine with it. Now I can't
imagine how I ever got along on such a pittance... ;)

The Palm IIIc was what I consider my first PDA. Although it really
wasn't. I bought two really cheap PDAs before that. They were under 40
bucks brand new. They had some PIM stuff, but that is it.

But the Palm IIIc cost over 300 bucks. And if I remember right, it was
the first color PDA. I *love* tech things that was the first. Later I
bought a GPS for the Palm (this was before cheap GPS gadgets). Although
it was really made for the Palm IIIxe and not the IIIc. At the time, I
thought the xe was the black and white version and the c was the color
version. Well it is kind of true to a point. And anything that ran on
the xe would also run on the c.

As the c was a tad longer from top to bottom. And this GPS clipped on
from top to bottom. So I could make it work if I held them together just
right. But not very practical. So I bought a xe just for the GPS.

I learned there was more differences too. It only had 2MB of memory and
ran off of two AAA batteries. As I liked the color display so much
better and the chargeable lithium battery on the c. And I gave up on the
GPS and the xe soon afterwords. But I kept using the c to this very day. ;-)

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
Smartphone? Naw... cellular signals don't work well where I live. They
only work well when I run into town.

No need for cell signals if you don't want a phone. When you put a
smartphone in Airplane Mode they are really just a PDA with laptop
(and WiFi) capabilities. Check EBay for some good used prices. A new
toy for you to check out...

Oh okay. I'll add that to my todo list on my c. No seriously, it sounds
interesting.

Post by AJL

Post by BillW50
Anyway I rather use a netbook rather than a smartphone for apps and data
stuff. Bigger keyboard and larger screen too. ;-)

Use both. You do now (your netbook and your Palm).

Oh great! ;-)

As a side note: When I was younger, I was *big* on the latest and the
greatest. Although as I age, what seems more important is collecting
devices that were noteworthy and important for their time. I dunno,
maybe it is just watching the clock tick along or something. :-(

[AJL]

Post by BillW50
But the Palm IIIc cost over 300 bucks. And if I remember right, it was
the first color PDA.

That IIIc color screen is a bit grainy at 160x160 resolution (My Droid
is 480x800). Also it was impossible to see in direct sunlight. Later
color models had the transreflective 320x320 screens which was a big
improvement.

Post by BillW50
At the time, I
thought the xe was the black and white version and the c was the color
version.

That was basically true.

Post by BillW50
I learned there was more differences too. It only had 2MB of memory

The IIIxe had 8 Meg of memory just like the IIIc. Maybe you're
thinking of the III which had 2 Meg.

Another advantage of the B&W Palms was that you could easily read them
in direct sunlight.

Post by BillW50
and ran off of two AAA batteries.

I had an aftermarket rechargeable battery pack that fit into the
battery compartment and sported a charging jack for the wall wart. It
was kind of a waste though since I got around 25 to 35 hours on a set
of plain old AAA alkalines.

Post by BillW50
And I gave up on the GPS

Another clip on device I had was the dialup modem. Course using the
thing in those things was like watching grass grow. I'm not sure which
was slower, AOL or the Palm... ;)

[ghelf]

My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery -
or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new one a
few years ago and they are now both the same.

The battery in my HP/Compaq dv9500 was pretty much dead after 3 years. I did
not want to pay $100 plus for a new battery so I just kept it plugged in.
After a year I decided I needed the battery. I couldn't believe those $100
batterys were now selling for $30 on Amazon.com. I bought one and so far
have no complaints. A few days later I saw a documentary on the problems
caused by product knockoffs, mostly from China. Laptop batterys were one of
the products they talked about.
If my laptop battery is dead within a year I'll know it was probably one of
those knockoffs.

[digger]

Post by Roger Mills
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.
The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.
The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.
If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.
Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power
is removed, it stops dead.
If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).
I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.
I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!
TIA.

I just got a new used laptop and the battery doesn't last too long. Some
places I read says to let it uncharge all the way a few times to restore
it to full capacity. Would that work? I like to leave the laptop plugged
in all the time but now what I read here is that's a bad think to do.

[Andy Burns]

Post by digger
I just got a new used laptop and the battery doesn't last too long. Some
places I read says to let it uncharge all the way a few times to restore
it to full capacity. Would that work?

What technology is the battery? Lithium based ones don't like that, you
just eat an extra cycle from the lifetime.

[AJL]

Post by digger
I just got a new used laptop and the battery doesn't last too long.

Used? Probably 80% chance it's a bad battery. But what do you use it
for? Video really sucks the juice. And anything running in the
background? These types of things can really shorten the battery life.

Post by digger
Some
places I read says to let it uncharge all the way a few times to restore
it to full capacity. Would that work?

If it's an Li-ion battery some laptops manuals say to discharge the
battery down to automatic turnoff once every few months to recalibrate
the battery's microprocessor. Others are 'precalibrated' and have no
such instructions. What does your manual say (if you have or can find
one)? Probably wouldn't hurt to try it once just to see if it helps.

Post by digger
I like to leave the laptop plugged
in all the time but now what I read here is that's a bad think to do.

Mainly because the laptop heat reportedly reduces battery longevity.
Personally I find it a hassle to always go hunting up the battery
which may or may not be fully charged when I want to go mobile so I
just leave mine laptops plugged in all the time. I've yet to have to
buy a replacement. The one I'm using tonight (Acer 4315) is 4 years
old and has been plugged in its whole life (whenever it's not mobile).
I'm sure the battery has lost some capacity over the years but it is
still quite serviceable.

[jeradl]

The BatteryCare app may help you determine the status of your lapto
batteries as well. It monitors discharge cycles, temperatures readings
calculates the statistical remaining time the battery has left; an
shows wear level, capacities, consumption, manufacturer, etc

[tahrey]

replying to Roger Mills, tahrey wrote:
If you've got four years use out of each battery, you've done extremely well.
I've not known laptop lithium batteries to last longer than that. Three years
is more par for the course, and their usable capacity is already on the slide
by the end of the second. The laptop I'm typing on is entering its sixth year,
and has its second battery in place, which is already down to about 20% of
original capacity. As the system is set to shut down into hibernation at 15%
(a seemingly vain attempt to prevent over-discharge and the lifespan reduction
that causes), that essentially means the machine is completely tied to the
mains and the battery is only really useful to keep it alive for a couple of
minutes when moving it between rooms (or sockets in the same room) without
shutting down, or as a safety "parachute" if there's a sudden power cut.

That doesn't mean the power supply is behaving itself however - I've had to
get an HP-Compaq laptop PSU replaced before as it failed in such a way that it
had just enough power to run the laptop in light usage conditions, or charge
the battery in a slightly sluggish fashion when the machine was turned off,
but not both at the same time (and high power use would gradually drain a full
battery). Whilst the battery is almost certainly dead, its death might have
been hastened by a dicky supply. Sadly the only way you can really test it is
by installing a working battery and observing the power-on charging behaviour,
maybe with a third party battery / power use monitor utility (or an OEM one if
they bothered to supply such). With the battery fully drained, it should be
able to charge at a rate representing 0 to 100% in under two hours (or just
one hour for some models), which then tapers off above 80~85%, with the
machine turned on but idling or only working lightly. With the processor,
graphics and disk working hard, that rate shouldn't drop to less than half and
there should still be a taper-down noticeable above maybe 90%. Alternatively
you can plug it into a power meter and see how much the PSU draws. At full
tilt it should be somewhere around the rating printed on the body; if it's
significantly less (below 75% or so, and particularly under 50%) even with the
cooling fan howling and your lap being thoroughly cooked then it's probably
defective.

An eight year old laptop, though, that's very much prime for replacement. I
keep my computers running as long as reasonably possible, and then a little
more, and I've not yet managed to keep a machine operating in a satisfactory
manner with contemporary software much beyond its 7th year. At least not for
those of middling to slightly above average performance, which tend to be the
best value (not "cheapest"). If it was originally a top-of-the-range model I
guess you may get an extra couple of years (I've seen Core 2 Duo/Quad desktops
stretch well into their 8th year whilst still being just about usable), but
even then I'd suggest you'd be better off resigning to the idea that it's had
its day, and the failed battery and potentially iffy power supply are good
reasons to replace the entire machine. You've definitely had your money's
worth out of it, and even the cheapest, nastiest machine you can buy now will
significantly outstrip a high end machine of 8 years ago in terms of
performance. I'd be looking to replace this one already (the generational
shift to 64-bit operating systems is increasingly leaving me disappointed when
looking at the minimum specs of otherwise attractive software, as it only has
32-bit Windows and there's no point spending money on an OS upgrade for a
machine that may only have another 12~18 months of service left in it), if
only I wasn't out of work and increasingly short of cash right now.