Discussion:
Camera lens
(too old to reply)
-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
2004-12-02 13:10:36 UTC
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How important is the lens on a digital Camera?

Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Bev A. Kupf
2004-12-02 13:21:42 UTC
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On 2 Dec 2004 05:10:36 -0800,
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Wrong set of newsgroups. Try rec.photo.digital
--
Many a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer
Thomas Reed
2004-12-02 13:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Wrong newsgroup, this is not Mac related. However, the quality of the
lens is of great importance.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
No.
--
-Thomas

<http://www.bitjuggler.com/>
niada isman made
2015-01-18 01:08:21 UTC
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camera GoPro HERO


jimbo
2004-12-02 15:22:37 UTC
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Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
The lens is the most important part of any camera. You don't need a
SLR unless you are really, really into photography. If you like to do
a lot of distance shots where you use telephoto, be sure to get a
camera with adequate OPTICAL zoom.

jimbo
Gregory L. Hansen
2004-12-02 15:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Some compact cameras have amazingly good lenses, even if they're limited
in aperture. Zoom lenses are good enough now for professional use, but
you never use a zoom lens instead of a fixed lens to get a better picture.
You use zooms for their versatility. Many compact cameras have zoom
lenses, and they're fine except, again, for being limited in aperture. A
larger aperture means a larger lens, until you just don't have a compact
any more.

You might have trouble finding an 80 to 200 zoom on a compact camera.
They're usually in a range like 35 to 105, and that's a nice range for
snapshooting. Digital cameras have smaller sensors than a frame of 35mm
film, so there's an effective telephoto effect, but if you want serious
telephoto you may need to go with an SLR.
--
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
-- Benjamin Franklin
-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
2004-12-04 10:26:28 UTC
Permalink
That's the thing. It will depend on the camera itself, is a digital
35 to 105 equivalent to an 80 to 200 zoom.
Post by Gregory L. Hansen
You might have trouble finding an 80 to 200 zoom on a compact camera.
They're usually in a range like 35 to 105, and that's a nice range for
snapshooting. Digital cameras have smaller sensors than a frame of 35mm
film, so there's an effective telephoto effect, but if you want serious
telephoto you may need to go with an SLR.
-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
2004-12-04 10:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jimbo,
I'll need an optical zoom equivalent to 80 to 200 to frame the
shots I use to take with my 35mm Nikon.
Post by jimbo
The lens is the most important part of any camera. You don't need a
SLR unless you are really, really into photography. If you like to do
a lot of distance shots where you use telephoto, be sure to get a
camera with adequate OPTICAL zoom.
Barry Watzman
2004-12-02 15:25:24 UTC
Permalink
The lens is extremely important. It is, after all, still a camera. You
see "bargain" digital cameras at cheap prices, but they have crap lenses
and no optical zoom (digital zoom is absolutely worthless and should be
completely ignored when comparing cameras). However, you need to look
at professional reviews to be able to juged the quality of a lens, you
really can't do it yourself. I recommend the reviews at
www.dpreview.com. The other thing is that the lenses on cameras from
"real" camera companies (Olympus, Minolta, Fuji) are more likely, other
things being equal, to be of high quality than those from other makers.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
J. Clarke
2004-12-02 15:40:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
You need _skill_ to get great pictures. Look at what Matthew Brady
accomplished with mid 1800s technology.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Mayor of R'lyeh
2004-12-02 16:33:16 UTC
Permalink
On 2 Dec 2004 05:10:36 -0800, "-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-"
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Most photographers recommend not using a lens with a digital camera.
They say if you have a digital camera that comes with a lens made onto
it you should smash it with a hammer until the lens falls off.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Only on Tuesday afternoons.
--
"If we can't win this damn election, with a
Democratic Party more unified than ever before,
with us having raised as much money as the
Republicans, with 55 percent of the country believing
we're heading in the wrong direction, with our
candidate having won all three debates, and with our
side being more passionate about the outcome than
theirs -- if we can't win this one, then we can't win
shit! And we need to completely rethink the
Democratic Party."

James Carville
Jim Polaski
2004-12-02 20:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mayor of R'lyeh
On 2 Dec 2004 05:10:36 -0800, "-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-"
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Most photographers recommend not using a lens with a digital camera.
They say if you have a digital camera that comes with a lens made onto
it you should smash it with a hammer until the lens falls off.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Only on Tuesday afternoons.
You don't know any real photographers.
--
Regards,
JP
"The measure of a man is what he will do
knowing he will get nothing in return"
Edwin
2004-12-02 21:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Polaski
Post by Mayor of R'lyeh
On 2 Dec 2004 05:10:36 -0800, "-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-"
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Most photographers recommend not using a lens with a digital camera.
They say if you have a digital camera that comes with a lens made onto
it you should smash it with a hammer until the lens falls off.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Only on Tuesday afternoons.
You don't know any real photographers.
He knows you... what are you saying about yourself?
--
"I will admit that I occasionally defend an Apple position I don't really
agree with. Advocacy is a game that I enjoy playing."
-- ZnU, March 17,2001
Jim Polaski
2004-12-03 00:08:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edwin
Post by Jim Polaski
Post by Mayor of R'lyeh
On 2 Dec 2004 05:10:36 -0800, "-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-"
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Most photographers recommend not using a lens with a digital camera.
They say if you have a digital camera that comes with a lens made onto
it you should smash it with a hammer until the lens falls off.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Only on Tuesday afternoons.
You don't know any real photographers.
He knows you... what are you saying about yourself?
You say he knows me, but as usual, you're totally wrong.

I'd know if I had ever me two loony toons like you and the mayor of
nothing and nowhere.
--
Regards,
JP
"The measure of a man is what he will do
knowing he will get nothing in return"
Mayor of R'lyeh
2004-12-03 00:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Polaski
Post by Mayor of R'lyeh
On 2 Dec 2004 05:10:36 -0800, "-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-"
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Most photographers recommend not using a lens with a digital camera.
They say if you have a digital camera that comes with a lens made onto
it you should smash it with a hammer until the lens falls off.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
Only on Tuesday afternoons.
You don't know any real photographers.
But, Jim, you and I are best buddies and you're a...oh, wait. Now that
I think about it I realize that you are correct.
--
"If we can't win this damn election, with a
Democratic Party more unified than ever before,
with us having raised as much money as the
Republicans, with 55 percent of the country believing
we're heading in the wrong direction, with our
candidate having won all three debates, and with our
side being more passionate about the outcome than
theirs -- if we can't win this one, then we can't win
shit! And we need to completely rethink the
Democratic Party."

James Carville
Gnarlodious
2004-12-02 16:34:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
I'm beginning to think you are either a Total Moron or a Troll.

-- Gnarlie
Charles Dyer
2004-12-03 23:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gnarlodious
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
I'm beginning to think you are either a Total Moron or a Troll.
He's both.
--
We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.
George Graves
2004-12-02 18:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Depends. Generally speaking, the better the lens the better the picture.
In film photography, where the resolution of some available films far
exceeds the state-of-the-art in lenses, and where most films are good
enough to tax any zoom lens, this is certainly the case. In Digital
cameras, most lenses are slightly better than the resolution of the
sensor or "digital film" Most Digital cameras have lenses that are
certainly good enough for their more-or-less fixed resolution, but there
are exceptions. Philips sells a 2 megapixel keychain or "lipstick"
camera called the KEY10 for about US$150. This tiny, fixed focus camera
looks to be the ideal cary-anywhere camera. Its small, light,
uncomplicated and 2 megapixels should result in a 1600 X 1200 pixel
image. My first Digital camera, a Nikon Coolpix 800 had this size sensor
and it was more than adequate for most purposes. Unfortunately, for
Philips, when they upgraded the 1 megapixel KEY07 to the 2 megapixel
KEY10, they "forgot" to upgrade the lens. The result is a very soft and
mostly useless 1600 X 1200 picture. So it is possible for a digital
camera to have a poor lens.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
That's like asking "Don't you need a 4000 square foot house to get
proper heating?" In other words one thing has nothing to do with the
other.

First of all, the focal length of a lens only refers to it's field of
view, NOT the lens' quality. All things being equal, 80-200 on a 35mm
film camera is a mild to medium magnification telephoto lens. This same
focal length on a 21/4" X 2 1/4" (also called "medium format") camera
such as a Hassleblad would only be normal (80mm) to mild telephoto (I.E.
a portrait lens).

Secondly the CCD devices that digital cameras use in place of film to
capture the image are almost ALWAYS smaller than a frame of 35mm film.
That means that the lens focal lengths that most of us understand don't
mean very much in a digital camera. For instance, a Minolta Dimage 7Hi,
has a zoom lens with a focal length of from 7.2mm - 50.8 mm. On a 35 mm
camera. this lens would be an impossibly wide angle lens on the low end
and a normal lens on the top. But because the Dimage has a very small 6
megapixel sensor (about 1/4 the size of a 35mm frame of film), this
7.2-50.8 mm lens actually has the same coverage as a 35 mm camera's
28-200 mm lens!

Some of the higher-end digital cameras such as the Nikon D70, look like
35mm cameras and are even the same size as one. This is done mostly so
that photographers don't lose their often substantial investments in
35mm lenses. My D70 will fit and can use any of the autofocus lenses
that I bought for my Nikon F5 film camera. The problem is that the 35mm
form factor of the camera is misleading. The camera might look like a
35, it might fit and use interchangeable lenses for a 35, but, again,
the actual sensor size is smaller than a 35mm film frame. This smaller
frame makes the resultant picture look as if it was taken with a longer
lens than was actually used. For instance, the zoom lens that comes with
the D70 outfit is an 18mm to 70mm. Yet, because of the smaller-than-35mm
CCD chip size, this lens focal length has to be multiplied by 1.5X in
order to get the REAL, or working focal length. In other words, this
lens would be an 18-70mm on my 35mm F5, but on my D70, it's really the
equivalent of a 27-105mm lens. Oh, yes, and while I can fit my Nikon F5
lenses to my D70 (my 28-105 becomes a 42-157.5 and my 80-200 becomes a
120-300), if I put my D70's 18-70 on my F5 film camera, I get a black
circle in the middle of the photo with a picture in it. This lens was
designed for a digital camera so they didn't make the lens with any more
coverage than was necessary to fill the Digital camera's CCD! Since
lenses are always better quality in the center than on the edge, you
will always get a better lens by buying a wide-angle lens for a film
camera to use on your digital camera. A full-frame 18-70 designed for a
35mm FILM camera will have the edge of the lens far outside the coverage
of the sensor, thus throwing the softer edge of the lens away. Had I
known this when I bought my D70, I wouldn't have bought the 18-70mm lens
that came with the camera/lens outfit and purchased just the camera
alone.

So you see, focal length is relative, while lens quality isn't. Good
digital cameras have lenses which are more than adequate for their task.
The actual focal length is irrelevant as different manufactures make
different size CCD chips in any given pixel count. This said, you cannot
go by the actual focal length, but rather the 35mm EQUIVALENT focal
length is all that's important. Like I said, in the 6 megapixel Minolta
Dimage 7Hi, 7.2mm is equal to a 28mm wide angle film camera lens, but on
my 35mm -sized, 6 megapixel Nikon D70, 18mm is equal to a 28mm
wide-angle lens because the Nikon 6 megapixel digital sensor is larger
than the 6 megapixel digital sensor in the Minolta. The Minolta is a
much smaller. lighter camera than the Nikon D70 because of this, but
then the Minolta's lense is permanently attached to the camera and not
interchangeable with the lenses of one's 35mm camera.

Make sense?
--
George Graves
------------------

Knowledge is good.
lang
2004-12-03 09:30:39 UTC
Permalink
http://www.ardice.com/Home/Consumer_Information/Electronics/Photography/35mm_Cameras
-oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
2004-12-04 10:17:24 UTC
Permalink
George Graves wrote:> the 35mm EQUIVALENT focal length is all that's
important.

Thanks George I was calling this "EQUIVALENT focal length," the
conversion. Now I see its just noy that simple.
Post by George Graves
First of all, the focal length of a lens only refers to it's field of
view, NOT the lens' quality. All things being equal, 80-200 on a 35mm
film camera is a mild to medium magnification telephoto lens. This same
focal length on a 21/4" X 2 1/4" (also called "medium format") camera
such as a Hassleblad would only be normal (80mm) to mild telephoto (I.E.
a portrait lens).
But because the Dimage has a very small 6
megapixel sensor (about 1/4 the size of a 35mm frame of film), this
7.2-50.8 mm lens actually has the same coverage as a 35 mm camera's
28-200 mm lens!
For instance, the zoom lens that comes with
the D70 outfit is an 18mm to 70mm. Yet, because of the
smaller-than-35mm
Post by George Graves
CCD chip size, this lens focal length has to be multiplied by 1.5X in
order to get the REAL, or working focal length.
In other words, this
lens would be an 18-70mm on my 35mm F5, but on my D70, it's really the
equivalent of a 27-105mm lens.
Oh, yes, and while I can fit my Nikon F5
lenses to my D70 (my 28-105 becomes a 42-157.5 and my 80-200 becomes a
120-300).
Had I
known this when I bought my D70, I wouldn't have bought the 18-70mm lens
that came with the camera/lens outfit and purchased just the camera
alone.
So you see, focal length is relative, while lens quality isn't. Good
digital cameras have lenses which are more than adequate for their task.
The actual focal length is irrelevant as different manufactures make
different size CCD chips in any given pixel count.
This said, you cannot
go by the actual focal length, but rather the 35mm EQUIVALENT focal
length is all that's important.
od.
M-M
2004-12-02 22:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Why are so many getting sucked into this troll?
Gnarlodious
2004-12-03 01:22:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by M-M
Why are so many getting sucked into this troll?
I don't know, but some people seem to take his question seriously. You will
notice the OP hasn't responded but must be amused reading us go on and on
about his question.

I'm beginning to wonder if this group (comp.sys.mac.system) is worth
continuing with. It's getting too much like a Windows newsgroup where you
read intentionally misleading posts and frivolous criticism.

But... The more high-profile Macs get the more crappy people we have to
tolerate.

Hope that doesn't sound too elitist!

-- Gnarlie's Applescript page:
http://Gnarlodious.com/Apple/AppleScript/
M-M
2004-12-03 01:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gnarlodious
The more high-profile Macs get the more crappy people we have to
tolerate.
Hope that doesn't sound too elitist!
Well, we mac-heads used to be elite but now since everyone wants one I
guess we have to deal with morons occasionally.

m-m
Edwin
2004-12-03 23:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
The secret to great pictures is learning to always make sure your thumb or
fingers aren't in front of the lens...
--
"I will admit that I occasionally defend an Apple position I don't really
agree with. Advocacy is a game that I enjoy playing."
-- ZnU, March 17,2001
Gordon Mulcaster
2005-01-18 06:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
How important is the lens on a digital Camera?
As important as speakers are for a stereo.
Post by -oo0-GoldTrader-0oo-
Don't you need a SLR lens like a 80 to 200 zoom to get great pictures?
No.
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