satellite a660 keyboard driving me nuts

[a***@gmail.com]

Absolutely. When 20% of the time you key strikes don't register, a particular key seems unresponsive 75%, and one key sticks 20% of the time.....

No, no games on this laptop, so can't blame it on that. Yes, they keyboard has been replaced at considerable cost and time.

I mean, we're talking about a *keyboard*. It's mature technology, not rocket science. Scrimping on areas that render a significant investment (at the time) to something of marginal usability. #@!%@#$!@

[Ken]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Absolutely. When 20% of the time you key strikes don't register, a
particular key seems unresponsive 75%, and one key sticks 20% of the
time.....

When you say the key sticks, do you mean physically or the character
repeats once the key is no longer depressed??

Post by a***@gmail.com
No, no games on this laptop, so can't blame it on that. Yes, they
keyboard has been replaced at considerable cost and time.

Assuming that you purchased a new keyboard, have you tried another power
supply on this laptop? A slightly lower voltage than required can
produce some bizarre behavior.

Also check the keyboard's behavior with a boot CD to see if the problem
only shows up in Windows or is always present. If it works OK from a
boot CD, I would disable all the start up programs starting via MSCONFIG
and see if that has an affect.

Post by a***@gmail.com
I mean, we're talking about a *keyboard*. It's mature technology,
not rocket science. Scrimping on areas that render a significant
investment (at the time) to something of marginal usability.

[Bob_Villa]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Absolutely. When 20% of the time you key strikes don't register, a particular key seems unresponsive 75%, and one key sticks 20% of the time.....
No, no games on this laptop, so can't blame it on that. Yes, they keyboard has been replaced at considerable cost and time.

I assume this rant means you're not buying Toshiba anymore?

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Ken

Post by a***@gmail.com
Absolutely. When 20% of the time you key strikes don't register, a
particular key seems unresponsive 75%, and one key sticks 20% of
the time.....

When you say the key sticks, do you mean physically or the character
repeats once the key is no longer depressed??

Post by a***@gmail.com
No, no games on this laptop, so can't blame it on that. Yes, they
keyboard has been replaced at considerable cost and time.

Assuming that you purchased a new keyboard, have you tried another
power supply on this laptop? A slightly lower voltage than required
can produce some bizarre behavior.

It's physical. I can hear and feel the delay before the sticky key comes up as I let up on the pressure. The nonregistering keys and unresponsive key is also physical. If you hit it hard enough, it always registers, but hardness is highly variable across keys. *Highly* variable. This kind of behaviour I expect out of dollar store products, not a high-ish end laptop.

Post by Ken
I assume this rant means you're not buying Toshiba anymore?

I wish it were that simple. If I *knew* that I would have this problem, of course, the choice not to go for this model would have been simple. But of course, this did not show up in my lengthy research. And it probably isn't the same for all Toshiba laptops. Similarly, whatever alternative I went for in the past or go for in the future will likely have unpredicatble issues elsewhere.

I just don't know why something as low-tech as a keyboard has to keep changing. If a formula has been found that works well, stick with it in new products. Change for its own sake is dumb. If there is a potentially beneficial change, for crying out loud, there is the concept of TESTING. Oh -- wait. How foolish of me. The market place is the guineau pig. I guess this is just one of those sacrificial test cases. And in high tech, there doesn't seem to be a way to avoid being such a test case even if you're prepared to go high-ish end. I think it's because high end has been distorted to mean computing power rather or snazzy jazzy graphics that translate easily into sexy advertising. Simple pedestrian things like robust physical features are no longer included.

[a***@gmail.com]

And just for laughs...it depends on the temperature. Warm summers, the sticky key really sticks. Cold winters, the touchpad buttons stick to all high hell. That's with just the limited temperature variation indoors. Cheap piece of crap, turns the glorified platform into something slightly better than a damn paper weight.

[~misfit~]

Post by a***@gmail.com
And just for laughs...it depends on the temperature. Warm summers,
the sticky key really sticks. Cold winters, the touchpad buttons
stick to all high hell. That's with just the limited temperature
variation indoors. Cheap piece of crap, turns the glorified platform
into something slightly better than a damn paper weight.

All of these symptoms point strongly toward PEBKAC errors. No laptop
keyboard will work flawlessly when sticky substances are introduced into it.

Maybe get a bigger external screen so you're not leaning over the keyboard
when you're drooling over porn?

Or not. <shrug>

[a***@gmail.com]

Thank you for your informative post, toshiba droid. Please -- continue trolling.

[~misfit~]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Thank you for your informative post, toshiba droid. Please --
continue trolling.

LOL! I don't own a Toshiba laptop at all - I just fix other people's laptops
when they mess them up.

Also, my post *was* informative. I told you, description of symptoms points
to introduced foreign matter under the keys.

[a***@gmail.com]

Shawn wrote:
...some pathetic drivel that isn't worth the bytes to quote.

LOL! No Toshiba? Well, apart from the fact that it's very much beside the point, let's see what we have here...

I described a problem with with a high-ish end machine (about twice the price of a going laptop at the time) which renders it barely usable... pretty matter of fact, and having nothing to do with your personal sex habits. Yet you lept right in to share your unsavoury practices.

I can only think of two explanations. You're a corporate lemming or you're filling up an empty life by trolling and exhibitioning online.

Yes indeed. *Extremely* informative...

As I said, please continue exposing more of your private leanings. (NOT.)

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by a***@gmail.com
I described a problem with with a high-ish end machine
(about twice the price of a going laptop at the time) which
renders it barely usable... pretty matter of fact, and
having nothing to do with your personal sex habits. Yet
you lept right in to share your unsavoury practices.

If this is a problem with the keyboards as new, why don't you
complain to Toshiba or the crowd that sold you the replacement
keyboard?

[the wharf rat]

Post by a***@gmail.com
I wish it were that simple. If I *knew* that I would have this problem,
of course, the choice not to go for this model would have been simple.

Buy a new keyboard. They're like maybe 20 bucks.

Lenovo's still got the best keyboards, BTW. One of the reasons I
stick with them.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by a***@gmail.com
I described a problem with with a high-ish end machine (about twice
the price of a going laptop at the time) which renders it barely
usable...

If this is a problem with the keyboards as new, why don't you
complain to Toshiba or the crowd that sold you the replacement
keyboard?

That's a good question. There is a lengthy back story behind this, in which it went to their local authorized dealers a few times. Once for the original problem, a HD having highly abnormal readings in a SMART report. There was also some tests run due to a common graphics card problem, but the re-assembly was not properly done. Something was buzzing and vibrating incessantly upon its return, and after some unsuccessful attempts by them to track the problem down, Toshiba had this sent to their own depot. They did some standard tests, didn't find anything, and sent it back. It wasn't adequately packaged for bulk transport, and the screen was smashed during the return. They didn't have any more of this model at hand so they sent another model, which was incompatible Synaptics (yes, such a platform does exist) making it impossible to emulate the middle mouse behaviour -- an essential function if you rely on older X-windows environments. They finally found the parts to replace the keyboard and screen on the original laptop, and solved the problem with the vibration.

All told, the laptop was unavailable for months, and to be repeatedly re-installed with Windows, apps, and customizations, amounting to countless days, and it costed untold amounts in transport. I stopped asking for coverage because all I cared about was getting with my laptop back in functioning form. The warranty expired some time ago, but even if it had not, I do not consider the warranty to be a solution.

Having said that, I have to be clear about the fact that Toshiba as a whole is not to blame. The escalated support contact bent over backward to try and solve the problem. The overall design is also very good. However, all the support in the world cannot make up for a poor design decision on the weakest link -- the physical user interface. BMW designers would not compromise on the steering wheel, but this is in effect what I find this to be. (Alright, the BMW analogy might be stretching things a bit). As I said, such a design decision is incomprehensible. Keyboard technology is mature. There doesn't seem to be a reason to do this from a business perspective (perhaps those in the know can shed some informative light on this).

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by a***@gmail.com
I wish it were that simple. If I *knew* that I would have this
problem, of course, the choice not to go for this model would have
been simple.

Buy a new keyboard. They're like maybe 20 bucks. Lenovo's still
got the best keyboards, BTW. One of the reasons I stick with them.

That is definitely the right solution if I wanted a desktop, along with all the space that such a solution entails. But my lifestyle is minimalist, both in terms of space and belongings. (Which means I had no alternative device while the machine was out for repair or in transport). I deliberately chose and was willing to pay for a laptop to fit my lifestyle, and it doesn't seem right to have to change my lifestyle to solve a problem with the laptop (get a bigger place, etc.). Such a decision is typically driven by much more than a crappy laptop. ('scuse the attitude, but I'm using it to compose this posting). None of my past laptops had this problem, and it's incomprehensible that a new high-ish end laptop has the problem. It's not the kind of problem you can suss out by taking the time to test drive the products in a store.

[the wharf rat]

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
Buy a new keyboard. They're like maybe 20 bucks. Lenovo's still
got the best keyboards, BTW. One of the reasons I stick with them.

That is definitely the right solution if I wanted a desktop, along with
all the space that such a solution entails. But my lifestyle is

Huh? I meant buy a new keyboard for the laptop, 20 bucks on
Ebay and a 5 minute swap if you read the manual to find all the hidden
screws and tabs first.

I'm not impressed with Toshiba's quality, myself. I've worked
on quite a few and they seem flimsy. So if I were you and I really liked
my Toshiba, I'd buy 2 keyboards, a set of keyboard trim (the plastic parts
that go around the keyboard), and a used but good condition "top end", the
screen assembly complete with plastic and hinges.

Oh, and at least one spare fan.

[a***@gmail.com]

I think I've got an idea of what causes the sticky keys. The A660 is somewhat unique in that the body of the laptop has holes cut out for each key. Unless there is perfect alignment, some keys will chafe against the holes. I suspect this because, after transporting the laptop in a backpack, different keys seem to stick. It is a shitty situation regardless of which keys stick, but the fact that they change suggests that the underlying keyboard shifts when the machine is handled.

I'm debating whether to get it serviced with this likely cause in mind (not under warranty), to be explained to the staff. However, the neverending story that led to this problem began by bringing the laptop in for servicing. That drawn-out experience strongly indicates that servicing is done at the owner's peril. Based on that, if one were to rule out servicing as an unacceptable risk, then the randomly sticky keys are, in effect, a permanent feature of this machine. I guess thats tuition for experience -- avoid individual holes in the housing for individual keys.

They say that life long learning is a good thing.

[the wharf rat]

Post by a***@gmail.com
I think I've got an idea of what causes the sticky keys. The A660 is
somewhat unique in that the body of the laptop has holes cut out for
each key. Unless there is perfect alignment, some keys will chafe
against the holes. I suspect this because, after transporting the
laptop in a backpack, different keys seem to stick. It is a shitty
situation regardless of which keys stick, but the fact that they change
suggests that the underlying keyboard shifts when the machine is
handled.

Lol, try tightening the screws that hold the keyboard and trim down.
They usually run through from the back.

Push comes to shove take a razor blade and shave the "holes" a bit
larger.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
Buy a new keyboard. They're like maybe 20 bucks. Lenovo's still
got the best keyboards, BTW. One of the reasons I stick with
them.

That is definitely the right solution if I wanted a desktop, along
with all the space that such a solution entails.

Huh? I meant buy a new keyboard for the laptop, 20 bucks on Ebay
and a 5 minute swap if you read the manual to find all the hidden
screws and tabs first.
I'm not impressed with Toshiba's quality, myself. I've worked on
quite a few and they seem flimsy. So if I were you and I really
liked my Toshiba, I'd buy 2 keyboards, a set of keyboard trim (the
plastic parts that go around the keyboard), and a used but good
condition "top end", the screen assembly complete with plastic and
hinges.
Oh, and at least one spare fan.

Sorry, I got thrown by he Lenovo reference and thought you meant an external 3rd party keyboard. But it's very interesting to find out from web surfing that replacing the keyboard is actually quite straightforward. I was under the impression that, unlike desktops, venturing into the seedy underbelly of a laptop was done at the owner's peril. And that impression was confirmed by all the trouble that beset the laptop after its first professional servicing. It seemed that if the pro's can screw it up consecutively, then woe to the mere end user who dares to try. I may take your advice and join the ranks of such users. Today, the stickiness is not there, either because the temperature is quite different from yesterday or I moved the laptop from one place to another. In fact, it's behaving quite well so far, so I'll bang away at other items on the to-do list until the problem rears its head, then I'll likely decide to bite the bullet.

Post by a***@gmail.com
I think I've got an idea of what causes the sticky keys. The A660
is somewhat unique in that the body of the laptop has holes cut out
for each key. Unless there is perfect alignment, some keys will
chafe against the holes. I suspect this because, after
transporting the laptop in a backpack, different keys seem to
stick. It is a shitty situation regardless of which keys stick,
but the fact that they change suggests that the underlying keyboard
shifts when the machine is handled.

Lol, try tightening the screws that hold the keyboard and trim down.
They usually run through from the back.

See above. Thanks for that. I anticipate that such a fix would definitely be iterative. (1) Experience sticky keys, (2) open laptop, fine-tune position and tighten down, (3) close laptop and try it out, hoping that stickiness didn't just move to another key, and (4) if it does, go to step (1).

Push comes to shove take a razor blade and shave the "holes" a bit
larger.

Bleah. Definitely hope it doesn't come to that. I'd consider throwing it into the dumpster. Only thing is, as I said earlier, there is no guarantee that switching to another laptop won't bring its own quirks. I thought I could avoid the gamble by doing my research and going around trying out different models in-store. It didn't work for this laptop.

Afternote: F..ck. Starting up again.